New site should I chose cyclos 3.x or 4?

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jadams
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:48 am

New site should I chose cyclos 3.x or 4?

Post by jadams » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:45 pm

I have a client who was looking for some software to set up a credit union, we looked at all the propitiatory stuff and settled on cyclos as a solution. When I looked at the users of Cyclos
I could see that many were time banks, so I have become rather interested in time bank solutions as a separate project.

I have become involved in two time banks locally, and thought it would be useful to offer to set up cyclos for them as practice, for the credit union.

I also was wanting to set up a specialist time bank for businesses.

I have many instances of installing open source software some of which has a commercial side (e.g. zimbra)

I had thought I would wait for version 4 of cyclos but now the signals being sent out set off every alarm.

The free version is hosted in "the cloud" and I don't do cloud except for backup, never mind the awful url presentation issue.

I can see how the "backers" for cyclos may not understand the models that allow people like Red Hat to thrive, and Zimbra people did OK, actually my favourite is
elastix, nexenta have somewhat messed up in a cylcos way.

I am inclined to use 3.7 and look to work with other users to further develop that, I know a fork occurred in the past, and went nowhere but they had no need.

I have no issue with a commercial version, as the credit union would deal in cash, however those of use who would deal in time would have real trouble paying cash unless we got into currency conversion which would rather mess up the tax and benefit claimant advantages of time banking in the UK.

The bit I read about being worried that hedge funds may use the software seems like paranoia.

Of course I could just be being paranoid in the same way but I don't wants our data on someone else server, espically if they can chop and change their licensing views.

Have they really just killed Cyclos?

What should I do?

rmvanarkel
Posts: 240
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:14 pm

Re: New site should I chose cyclos 3.x or 4?

Post by rmvanarkel » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:59 pm

Dear J adams,

We too regret that we can no longer keep Cyclos Open Source, the Cyclos management and the development team is very Open Source minded and for us this was not an easy decision. Our official statement can be read here, I think you might not have seen this page, because it would have answered a lot of your doubts:
https://www.cyclos.org/cyclos-4-release

The license of Cyclos 4 will not be Open Source like the previous versions of Cyclos were (Cyclos 3 and lower). The main reason is that the development of financial software requires considerable financial resources. In the past we were fortunate to receive grants from several institutions (the Dutch Government, IDB, DOEN), but presently there is not sufficient funding available. Our current investors suggested a business model that allows the development costs to be shared among the larger users (that can afford it financially). STRO is working towards a business plan with a commercial approach, which at the same time will allow social initiatives to benefit from a free version.
The free version is hosted in "the cloud" and I don't do cloud except for backup, never mind the awful url presentation issue.
1) At "https://www.cyclos.org/cyclos-4-release" we state that: Cyclos 4 PRO will be offered against start-up conditions that allow new users easy entry. Fees will only be charged once the system exceeds a certain amount of users and/ or generates enough commercial profit. Projects with a social mission with the lack of resources can apply for free version (details will be given in our newsletter). This will be a downloadable version, so you can manage your own backups etc.
2) The url representation is something we are working on. Soon you will be able to have your own nice url when using the community instance. Many nice other features are on there way.
When I looked at the users of Cyclos I could see that many were time banks.
This is because this is the user list of social projects and indeed most of them are Lets or timebanks.

I hope this post will comfort you. However I regret your tone a bit in this forum post. Please try to understand that we are a non profit organization, many of us are working for wages far below their market value, because we believe that our product might bring some good change to the world. If we wouldn't have taken this decision Cylcos would really have been killed already financially.

jadams
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:48 am

Re: New site should I chose cyclos 3.x or 4?

Post by jadams » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:02 pm

Thanks for this it seems that if a migration tool is to be provided from 3 to 4 then it makes sense to stick with 3 for the time being, and see how things pan out with 4.

rmvanarkel
Posts: 240
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:14 pm

Re: New site should I chose cyclos 3.x or 4?

Post by rmvanarkel » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:14 pm

Yes a migration tool will be provided (it is in the planning for when we have a fully stable / functional version of Cyclos 4). Its indeed safe to start with Cyclos 3, but remember with Cyclos 4 we have really taken Cyclos to another level.

onyekachi
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:47 pm

Re: New site should I chose cyclos 3.x or 4?

Post by onyekachi » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:09 pm

i just read the response to this posting and i really appreciated your response and the tone you used to respond.
I am a Java developer and an Architect. before the WIKI 4 was closed to public, i read the architecture (what ever was available) and I know i could help you in the development. I currently program with GWT, Spring frame work and JavaScript. i am a Cyclos enthusiast and i wanted to make a career supporting and promoting Cyclos 4.

i know you are still coming up with the Business plan and licensing and all that, but meanwhile how do you see my participation? is that even possible or just a dreamer?. is their a room for developer like me?

admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:31 am

Re: New site should I chose cyclos 3.x or 4?

Post by admin » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:51 am

Dear Onyekachi,

Many thanks for the offer. At the moment we do not have a vacancy, and we do work with external developers.
That said, there is quite some interest from enterprise users in Cyclos4 and it is very likely that in the future people with your skill and enthousiasm will be needed. I cannot give any estimation about the time though. But as soon as an oppertunity arisis we will contact you (you were allready on our contact list for developers).

Kind regards,

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